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The Tazland Squad for Conquest


AquilaTempestas

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@X_Dark_Paladin @Sakura Alexia @Stubborn Saber @Adney @VectorLogic @Shizophrenia

So. As some of us have been discussing online, we're having a few issues regarding making out conquest games work as a full squad.

I think that we need to be playing in our strongest/most comfortable role and work on our decision making and farming. I think we also need to be a little more aggressive as a team and try and invade the enemy jungle and do rotations earlier. At the moment, we're kinda just playing too passive and allowing the enemy to take our camps and get ahead and therefore they end up snowballing.

I don't mind playing any role, but I do have a preference for jungle, carry or solo lane. 

Here are my comfort pick gods:

Solo > Chang'e, Zhong Kui, Odin, Cu Chulainn, Erlang Shen, Sun Wukong, Aphrodite

Jungle > Ao Kuang, Loki, Bastet, Mercury, Erlang Shen, Fenrir

Mid > Ah Puch, Poseidon, Hades, Zeus, Anubis, Ullr, Agni

Support > Fenrir, Kumbha, Cerberus, Odin, Achilles, Erlang Shen

ADC > Rama, Ullr, Hou Yi, Chiron, Medusa, Chronos

From our comfort picks, I think we could probably build a few practice teams and see what works best. What do you think? It's a little frustrating losing 5+ games in a row because of mistakes we are making. We do have the rest of this season to fix things up before a new start so let us work on a few practice squads.

Questions for discussion! Please do respond!

  • What are your comfort picks per role?
  • What do you think we need to work better on?
  • Who do you feel you work best with when it comes to jungle/mid and support/carry?
  • What are some mistakes you have noticed we are making?
  • And how can we farm better to not let the enemy snowball?
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Agreed, the full pre-made matches definitely needs some work, currently our performances our patchy at best and at worst bad enough so the enemy keeps us pinned for the entire game and wins in 20-30mins. As for roles I prefer, I'm comfortable with at least 1 god from each category, although I do need to work on my Hunters the most, since I can only play Chernobog as a proper Carry competently.

 

Comfort God Picks:

  • Solo- Loki, Guan Yu, Hades, Achilles, Sun Wukong, Bellona, Ullr (Tank/Survivor)                                                                                                             -2nd experienced role
  • Jungle- Loki, Thor, Fenrir, The Morrigan, Ratatoskr                                                                                                                                -Not utilised much this season, but experienced from past seasons
  • Mid- Hades, Hera (Argustus), Poseidon, Kukulkan, Nu Wa (After a bit more practise)                                                                                                     -3rd experienced role this season
  • Support- Loki, Hades, Hera, Ymir, Ganesha, Ullr (Tank/Survivor), Ares, Thor (Support), Cerberus, Geb (Assassin), Cabrakan (Fat Loki)                           -Most experienced role overhaul
  • ADC/Carry- Chernobog, Hera (Argustus), Jing Wei, Artemis, potentially Ah Muzen Cab and Skadi based off their W/L ratio and past Assault games -Least experienced role overhaul

(With practise Hera could fit into most, if not all roles, due to her current power level and how easy I find her to use. Currently she was 18 wins - 2 loses.)

 

What we need to work on better (no holds barred, below I'm going to be blunt, so you might not like what I have to say, but I feel it needs to be addressed):

  • First off we need to determine our roles and gods before queuing, this will allow us to set up combos and prepare for the next match.We should pause so everyone can request roles whilst at the same time offer suggestions of others selected gods can be give. We can use out comfort god picks to recommend picks for people.
  • In game we need improve our temperament, current decision making and communication.
  • Like it or not Smite is a tactical game which requires strategy to win, which is why I personally like it so much, shouting and muting our mics in frustration doesn't help the team. Plus, when you become angry it clouds your decision making ability and as a result bad plays are made.
  • As for decision making, what can I say honestly? Let's not be stupid and repeat bad plays and mistakes, in one game we pushed middle lane and got ganked, so we did the exact same thing a second time in a row with the exact same result, sadly we didn't even get the tower either.
  • Communication is our key to victory, if used correctly, make sure we let others know about enemies that go missing and where they are headed. Wards are also a must for everyone, they let us know the enemy position and can change an outcome of battle, they may cost gold, but it's damn well worth it.
  • Duo lane always seems to suffer most unfortunately in full pre made matches, again communication with your partner here is key, being reckless and getting yourself puts your partner at risk, or worse you can get them killed too.
  • I think Duo and Mid should be our Junglers priority, as well as camps, solo should be able to handle themselves and if you can't because you are being bullied let Mid and Jungler know. Jungler can take your camp if you are struggling.
  • After a match we should wait a minute to chill and reflect before heading into another match, instead of rushing into another game if tensions are high.

(The above comments apply to everyone, including myself, the amount of stupid plays I've made recently is laughable in my eyes.)

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Don't know if i really have a say in this, cuz i returned only few days ago and my skills aren't, to say the least of it, that good as they used to be (or maybe didn't use to be), buuut anyway if you tagged me:

I don't mind any role, if you want me to play something, then i will. Though having troubles with jungling and carrying (according to last games of conquest). Don't know about support and mid for now, it's been a while since i played them, and solo i'm ok with for now.

 

Comfort picks: (though again i didn't practise a lot of them in a while + experienced them in last season (or maybe last-last one uuum?))

Solo: Chang'e, Chaac, Bellona

Jungle: Loki, Da Ji, Bakasura

Mid: Nox, Chang'e, Hel, Ra

Support: Ares, Ymir, Hel, Athena, Artio, Kumbhakarna

Carry: Neith, Skadi, Izanami, Medusa

 

What i noticed was us kinda uncooperating as we need to in full pre-made; us just getting angry if stuff goes wrong, because we let enemies do whatever they want, and because of that doing fatal (for ourselves) things; playing passive. At least that's what i caught myself doing wrong.

Stubborn gave a full list of "what we should improve", that's why i don't know what to add, because i agree with his opinion and i don't think that i should repeat his thoughts all over again (though i already kinda did in the paragraph above).

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We had had way better games than the last ones, I agree, where we at least had a chance and sometimes even managed to make a comeback, we've got snowballed really hard lately.

I say that my best roles are usually the tankier roles, but I feel like I'm improving in the damaging ones too, at least with some gods. Duo lane is the lane I have most experiance with, in both roles as I used to be carry when I started and then switched over to support, role that I still believe being my best one. I don't despise solo, even though against mages is a bit hard today, the problem there for me is the limited god pool I can play. Mid I can say I am okay with, all those wins with Nu Wa certainly game me more confidence in the role, same goes for ADC, that 18/0 of last night reminded me that I can be good, while jungling eh... I'm very 50/50 with it, I either snowball from the start or be useless the entire game, so far I believe its my worst role.

 

Comfort God Picks

Solo - Bellona, Nike, Chang'e, possibly Artio though she needs practicing.

Jungle - Da Ji, Bastet, Awilix.

Mid - Nu Wa, Sol (she's finally back), Morrigan, Neith.

Support - Athena, Artio, Terra, Amaterasu (support), Hel (support/bruiser), Aphrodite (support/bruiser), Ne Zha (support/bruiser).

ADC - Skadi, Neith, Izanami, Artemis (if she doesn't get picked on too hard), Sol.

There are some gods that I didn't include being Pele, Medusa, and Discordia. Pele is still this powerful thing that if she gets ahead destroys everything in her path and also I'm not confident enough with her yet either, if I don't get ahead at the start I get destroyed. Medusa, I've been doing awfully with her the entire season, so I just avoid playing her like plague, and same goes for Discordia, I can't hit an ability of hers anymore and this doesn't help of course.

 

I agree with Stubborn's suggestions, I know I'm the angry one and I won't lie because there's no point to it, I am someone that gets angry easily I've been trying to improve but obviously not hard enough. I'll try harder to control my temper.

For other suggesions I have noticed that duo lane gets picked on the most too, but also that usually the enemy jungler and mid-laner often, if not almost always, gank together, work together, so we should maybe practice on that. Same goes when getting ganked in solo too. A tower could fall of course, but if the team gets ahead then we can get all the objectives we want.

We tend to play a lot of single target gods, all at the same time, which impacts on our teamfight potential later on with the lack of big AoE attacks that can hit multiple targets.

We should never sacrifice a damage dealer for another tankier character, always have a mage, a hunter and an assassin, doesn't matter the role they're in just have one somewhere. The only exception could be a hunter if there's a mage adc. Having more damage dealers seems to work better than having more tanks in this meta anyway. We've been beaten by teams with no tank before, and we've done the opposite too.

This is all that comes to my mind at the moment, I might think at something else later on.

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  • Administrator

Here are my thoughts. I'll write up some thoughts about each role later on.

 

I definitely think keeping chill is the most important thing to note. I've had games when I've been a little frustrated (Loki in solo lane against a Zhong) and this was causing myself to play poorly. I changed my attitude around mid to late game, and started doing well again. Keep a cool head. I can't stress this enough. When one teammate gets mad, everyone else on the team suffers as a result. When you get mad, take off the mic. Don't continue to yell and scream into the mic until you've calmed down. Don't lay the blame on everyone else. Sometimes you are at fault and there's nothing wrong with admitting you screwed up and this could be due to poor positioning or just being behind in levels to simply being out played. So yeah. Don't get tilted. I can't speak for anyone else, but I find this incredibly annoying and I lose focus on the match too and my gameplay and thinking suffers as a result.

Secondly. stop with the experimental builds and roles. This one is mostly directed at myself since I run some strange picks every now and then like Poseidon jungle. No more Ares jungle. No more Ullr jungle. It doesn't work against better teams. We need at the most one true tank and one semi tank. Having a tank in the jungle just messes up our actual team composition and we have to make up for it elsewhere. If you are in solo lane, don't go all damage unless you know you have the upperhand (for example the enemy solo is new to the game and they take a lot of minion poke). You will die to a jungle gank easily. There's a reason why solo laners build bruiser or mostly defense.

Thirdly. the laning phase. This seems to be an issue I've noticed with some players on our squad (myself included). One ability per wave. Having no mana at level 1 is awful and really puts your lane behind and thus the team. Level up your best wave clear ability, then your escape, then your wave clear ability again then whatever else. When you are in duo, wait for the minions to hit each other first. Support should be trying to poke the enemy whilst the carry clears the wave. If you think you'll lose pressure clear your purple first. If you have pressure, clear wave and take enemy purple. Winning a lane is all about aggression. If you play passively (look at the recent eUnited, NRG games etc) you lose the game. If you lose your lane early, it's not the end of the game. If you don't see an enemy in your lane, look to take an XP or buff camp or rotate to a lane that needs help. Never just sit there in lane doing nothing. If your tower takes poke, it's fine. We can always get a tower down later.

Fourth, jungling. This role calls for aggression. Routes tend to vary a lot but I found it's most effective to go Speed > XP Camp > Mana > Side Harpies > Gank Middle Lane > Take Enemy Red or your own Red > Take Purple then rinse and repeat. I've actually been experimenting with going the speed boots as  jungler for faster rotations. Early game junglers like Fenrir and Bastet should aim to gank at level 3. Late game junglers like Loki and Ao Kuang should try and gank as soon as their ult is online. It's about understanding power spikes. Certain gods are stronger a little later.

Who gets red camp? I personally think the carry and duo lane should get red especially in the early game because it will help duo get pressure. Mid should get damage in the late game because of the AOE damage, but ADC should get it early and mid or when sieging the phoenix.

I've noticed that sometimes we have poor positioning. Aggression is good; but not being overly aggressive. If your teammates aren't anywhere near you, it's probably not a good idea to start a fight. When an ally dies, your team suffers. Another issue we seem to have is not grouping up for important fights. There'll be someone on their own ripe for getting picked off elsewhere. If anyone is going to split push it should be the jungler as they have the best mobility. As soon as someone split pushes, your leaving your team one man down. The only time you should be split pushing is if you are confident your teammates can handle a fight and win (generally if your team is ahead). On this note, if you plan to start a fight, let your teammates know you need follow up. 

Solo lane. This is a tough role. If you are not good at dueling or feel comfortable doing a 1v1, just stay safe under the tower. If you don't feel safe playing a warrior or guardian, you can always play Baron, Zhong Kui or Chang'e. You do not have to win your lane. You just have to farm enough to get ahead so you can rotate and frontline team fights effectively. If you are still struggling on solo lane, watch videos from FineOkay, a professional Smite player who is a masters in solo. He does helpful guides on how to solo lane correctly and takes you step by step on what to do. He taught me how to solo lane.

If you are in solo lane, and you are winning, take enemy mana camp. Go proxy farm. Freeze the wave. Do whatever you can to deprive the enemy of xp and gold. Push your minions under their tower because that deprives them of even more xp. The same method applies to mid and duo as well. Winning lane? Take their camps. Ward objectives. Ward openings on your lane.

Also, I can't stress this enough, but know your match ups. If you are in laning against people with sustain and healing, you're probably going to lose pressure. That's fine. Just stay under the tower and focus on farming and get those anti healing items up earlier in your build. If you are a Bastet and going up against a Mercury, know you'll probably be outfarmed and know you won't win a duel, but you can still apply pressure elsewhere. Know when to be aggressive. Know when to play passively. I also think it's best if we partner up with people who match our personal play styles best.

Build to your opposition. If you are playing against a Chang'e in solo lane and you are a warrior, you're going to want to take advantage of your early game aggression. If you trust yourself enough to win your lane, rush boots or rush that life steal shield. If you don't trust yourself, get guardian's blessing because even if you plan to play passively, you will still get extra gold. If you are in duo lane and you are support, get the health chalice and five health potions - you won't need meditate and you can get a horrific emblem or sprint instead.

Don't pick fights you can't win. If you are down two levels, you are not going to win a one on one trade with your opposite. Go and farm instead to get some gold and xp. Sometimes you will lose pressure in lane. Sometimes you will be behind in gold and xp. It happens at the high end of Smite play too - it's how you stay composed and fight back that's key. If the enemy is laughing at you, hit that mute button. If randoms are getting you angry, mute them too. It makes things so much easier so you can focus on your gameplay. If a teammate dies, ask yourself, what could I have done to help them? The first step in becoming a better player is to acknowledge your own mistakes and where you can improve.

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So far ive been more comfortable with Jungle or Support. I think its true and have never seen it in this way before but ive noticed other pre-made teams be more aggressive in the early game. Taking camps when there isnt anyone in your lane is more beneficial to us in the early and the long run. 

 

  • Mage/Mid: Zeus, Baron Samedi, Nu wa, Ra, Poseidon 
  • Guardian/Support:  Ares, Ymir(Jungle as well) Ganesha Kumbahkarna and Cerberus
  • Assasin/Jungle: Awilix, Ne Zha, Arachne, Loki, Thanatos
  • Warrior/Solo: Chacc. Achilles, Cu Culainn, Odin (Big Papa Odin), Sun Wukong
  • Hunter/Carry: Xblanque, Hou Yi, Cupid, Medusa, Izanami

 

This Concludes my top five for each role. I hope to be more attentive and not let the pressure get to me as far as making irrational decisions and communicate more and plan out ambushes and strategic farming. 

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  • Administrator

All good points raised thus far.

I forgot to note this one earlier, but I think we have to stop chasing down kills and getting baited. Sometimes, it's best just to force the enemy to back off and turn our attention to important objectives like fire giant, pyro, gold fury and towers instead of chasing that kill.

In terms of team composition, I think we need a balance between early game gods and late game gods. Sometimes we have teams that are all just about the early game (and fall off late) or all about the late game (and most of the time we don't even get there).

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So I wanted to come back to this topic and note that we have been improving, but attitude is definitely a problem still. I know that some of us get a little too frustrated when we find ourselves falling behind in gold and xp. If you do find yourself a few levels behind, just go and farm. Don't complain about being behind in levels - complaining gets us nowhere. Also, it doesn't help to complain about your lane opposition. Sometimes, you just aren't as good and there's nothing wrong with that. There's always going to be someone better than you and you will always be better than someone else (how's that for positive thinking?).

Knowing when to be aggressive and knowing when to be passive. Play to your opposition. Some gods will have better clear than you. There's nothing you can do about this but stay safe. At the end of the day, it's better to stay alive even if you end up losing your lane. Like if you are in solo lane against a Chaac and you are someone like Cu Chulainn, you are probably going to have a difficult time. Don't be afraid to mix up your build a bit. You can buy a damage item on guardians. You can buy a damage item on solo laners. There is nothing that says you have to play a guardian like a tank and so on.

Farming still seems to be a big issue. Never be idle. Always be looking to do something. Don't see your lane opposition? Rotate. Has the enemy rotated to another lane? You can rotate yourself to that lane or you can take some camps. Hitting the tower isn't the most important task in the early to mid game - getting ahead in farm is and while your minions are hitting that tower, you can invade the enemy jungle and take their stuff too. Yes. The enemy tower might survive, but you deprive the enemy of their farm. That is your main goal here. Deprive enemy of vital farm. The further they are behind, the less gold they will have to buy items.

Freeze the wave. Last hitting the minions will always give you more. When the minions meet each other (and there's no enemy around), just stand near the minions and get the last hit in. If you are in solo lane, and your enemy has left lane, don't be afraid to try and proxy or steal their jungle. For jungle, don't be afraid to invade the enemy jungle and take their stuff. It's yours too. For solo lane, if you feel you are going to lose pressure because of a match up, get Guardian's Blessing. You will lose the lane. But you can still play a huge role in the team fighting stage. 

Know how to adjust your strategy. Are you getting ganked a lot? Place wards in spots the enemy seems to be coming from a lot. Are you taking a lot more damage than what feels normal? Look at enemy builds. Make a build to counter certain things that are giving your team trouble. Don't blame your teammates. Yes, they might've done something dumb, but what could you have done to help them? Oh. If you can't play a role, learn how to. 

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  • Administrator

December Observations...

Lately, I've been doing quite well in mid lane so I think that's gonna be my main role again but my success really depends on @X_Dark_Paladin playing jungle.

So we've had a few more games together as a full squad - @Shizophrenia @Lil' Snow-Bunny @Stubborn Saber @Sakura Alexia - and there are still some things that we can improve on.

As Stubborn mentioned the other day, some of our decision making is still a bit off. That was most likely my fault for making the call on fire giant but oh well.

Secondly, losing pressure fast in mid and duo remains an issue. If you are behind three levels in either lane, it puts a lot of pressure on jungler (who then falls behind too) and thus we all suffer. I found that out the hard way today when we lost pressure in all three lanes thus allowing the enemy jungler to clear out our jungler putting us even further behind. 

How can we improve? We all play different gods. And we all have different playstyles. We can cover up for each other's weaknesses, but we need to be in roles that allow for that.

  • Pairing an aggressive player with a passive player is a recipe for disaster. This strongly applies to mid/jungle.
  • Jungler needs to be an aggressive player with an equally aggressive mid lane. In this current meta, jungler and mid carry games.
  • Farming remains an issue. We really should not be three or more levels behind our lane opposition within the first few minutes of the game.
  • Solo lane it's fine to be passive and farm until the late game. Just try not to die.
  • Efficient builds. If you are behind in gold and XP, build cheaper items. For example if you are a hunter, pick up an Ichaival if you are behind. It's cheap and powerful at a low cost.
  • Don't leave lane if there is a minion wave coming! I see this happen too frequently.
  • Don't be idle in lane. This still continues to happen. Don't see an enemy? Check for camps or rotate.
  • Conserving mana. This is also another area of concern. Running out of mana at lvl 1 whilst the enemy is still close to full. 
  • Not knowing how to deal with Vulcan. Vulcan generally should pressure you in lane hard. The trick is to take out the turret first. If he's smart, he'll place the turret away from his minions so you gotta waste more abilities trying to hit it. I believe your minions will aggro on the turret first before enemy minions however so use this to your advantage and hit the enemy minions first before clearing the turret.
  • If this is not the case, stay out of turret range and attack it outside the cone. You can see this attack radius. 
  • For mid laners, throw down your wave clear ability just before the wave hits so it hits all minions
  • Level up your wave clear first. Then your escape. Then your wave clear again. 
  • For mid laners again, get Mage's Blessing and Tier 1 boots (so you can get back to lane faster). I've done the Book of Thoth rush many times but it loses pressure fast and doesn't give you much room for potions.
  • For hunters, Hunter's or Mage's Blessing and Tier 1 of Transcendence or Devos. You can afford to get to lane slower because your have your support there.

 

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Well then we've got to see who is aggressive and who is not, and also see who gets the best result when paired with which person and when not. And yes better decision making too, I guess it really depends where we're positioned and in which moment and if we can allow ourselves to do a certain thing, like the other day with not taking the phoenix despite all of us being relatively healthy.

I, for sure, I'm a more passive player, I tend to get more aggressive as a tankier character because I know I can allow myself to be and since its you guys, I can be sure that someone is going to have my back, I'm not afraid to throw myself in and even die in the process if it means getting the job done. As a damage dealer I'm never that confident in myself except a few rare times.

I'm mostly in the duo lane too rather than the other lanes, even though I noticed I've been playing mid quite a bit recently so having a partner is almost a constant thing for me. Judging from the experiences I can say that my best partners are usually Aquila and Stubborn, nothing wrong to say about everyone else of course but I did notice that I can coordinate myself better with them most of the time. I guess its also because I played with them longer too.

Paladin and I have always been a 50/50 situation, if we're in lane together its usually a disaster, but if he jungles and comes to gank the lane I'm in it works well. As for Shiz I don't really know why but I find that we can't coordinate very well together either, despite doing well in other games though. I think the problem here is the similar god pool we have and I always find myself thinking that she would play a god that I know well the same exact way as me, which of course doesn't happen and sort of screws me over.

As for Adney I don't want to express myself, I think its early to judge because she doesn't have the same amount to played time nor experience as the rest of us, so I believe that her mistakes come from inexperience more than anything else, we did them too at the beginning after all. I shall wait for that when she becomes better and see how well we can work together. I think the situation here its like when we played OW only with reversed roles, I was the inexperienced one there and here's the opposite.

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2 hours ago, Sakura Alexia said:

Well then we've got to see who is aggressive and who is not, and also see who gets the best result when paired with which person and when not. And yes better decision making too, I guess it really depends where we're positioned and in which moment and if we can allow ourselves to do a certain thing, like the other day with not taking the phoenix despite all of us being relatively healthy.

I, for sure, I'm a more passive player, I tend to get more aggressive as a tankier character because I know I can allow myself to be and since its you guys, I can be sure that someone is going to have my back, I'm not afraid to throw myself in and even die in the process if it means getting the job done. As a damage dealer I'm never that confident in myself except a few rare times.

I'm mostly in the duo lane too rather than the other lanes, even though I noticed I've been playing mid quite a bit recently so having a partner is almost a constant thing for me. Judging from the experiences I can say that my best partners are usually Aquila and Stubborn, nothing wrong to say about everyone else of course but I did notice that I can coordinate myself better with them most of the time. I guess its also because I played with them longer too.

Paladin and I have always been a 50/50 situation, if we're in lane together its usually a disaster, but if he jungles and comes to gank the lane I'm in it works well. As for Shiz I don't really know why but I find that we can't coordinate very well together either, despite doing well in other games though. I think the problem here is the similar god pool we have and I always find myself thinking that she would play a god that I know well the same exact way as me, which of course doesn't happen and sort of screws me over.

As for Adney I don't want to express myself, I think its early to judge because she doesn't have the same amount to played time nor experience as the rest of us, so I believe that her mistakes come from inexperience more than anything else, we did them too at the beginning after all. I shall wait for that when she becomes better and see how well we can work together. I think the situation here its like when we played OW only with reversed roles, I was the inexperienced one there and here's the opposite.

I think Paladin makes for best jungler based on my own experiences. We also work together really well esecially in mid and jungle (which is what we normally end up with when we play at my time and we usually win) 

I haven't really experimented much with Stubborn though as we are normally in totally different lanes. You and I do okay in duo lane. Shiz doesn't really jungle often and Adney still has much to learn and still needs to find what role suits her best. 

 

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  • Administrator

So. It seems I just can't jungle for shit anymore and I don't know why. Blegh. It's just not working for me. 

I think I'm just going to start playing bloody healers in support and solo because that's all the rage and it's the easiest way of winning. I'm sick of laning against healers and I really hope next year they shut down this healing meta because it's so not fun. 

My mains are failing me at the moment. I don't know if it's because I'm too nervous to play them properly because I expect myself to do better (because of my mastery levels on certain gods) and therefore I do shit.

But yeah. I'm really disappointed with myself. I think my main problem is that I expect each laner to hold their own ground. I can't cope with overly aggressive laners. If I am jungling, don't start a fight. Wait until I do and back me up. I also can't do shit with enemy healers.

I don't know if it's a combination thing that just isn't working. It's kinda funny because when @X_Dark_Paladin jungles and I mid, we do well but when the roles are reversed we do shit. Anyone else noticed this? I work better with more passive mid laners.

I think that's also something we should point out. What we feel most comfortable working with in our respective chosen roles.

  • I do have a preference for warrior support like an Odin, Achilles or Erlang Shen but I need my carry to be aggressive too
  • I will happily play Baron Samedi in support
  • If I am jungler, I do expect my teammates to hold their lanes. 
  • If I am jungler, I prefer to have teammates cover each lane instead of leaving our random in solo (because they tend to complain a lot and things go south)
  • I prefer a passive mid laner when I jungle
  • I will not gank solo lane if I am jungle unless you need cover
  • I can't work well with overly aggressive mid laners if I am jungler
  • I won't jump into a fight if I am behind in levels or laning against a healer
  • I generally don't start ganks until I get my ult online
  • If I am carry, expect me to miss lots of abilities and autos. On the rare occasion I may actually hit something.

That's all I have thus far.

@Stubborn Saber @Shizophrenia @Lil' Snow-Bunny @Sakura Alexia @X_Dark_Paladin

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Unless my connection is stable, like it has been for the past few sessions, I wouldn't have myself play jungler. Lagging and being very inaccurate wastes so many gank potentials, not to mention how frustrating it is knowing how well I could do compared to how well I will perform with a bad connection. If people want a break from this role, and if my connection is satisfactory, then I don't mind giving the role a shot. As for who i prefer to jungle, Aquila and Paladin have the most experience, so that may give us better chances at winning, Sakura also has the potential to do well in this role.

Solo lane I like playing, currently it seems to be a more relaxed lane, a 1v1 stall fest, or it can turn into an utter destruction of one side if they aren't cautious/experienced in this lane. I don't tend to need to much assistance in this lane typically, although I have no complaints if the jungler wants to gank at an appropriate time, e.g. the opponents health is low or/and we have both ults. I think I may need to get into the habit of rotating earlier, assisting or ganking midlane because it normally gets picked on, gaining control of mid would give us a major advantage over the enemy side.

Other points to note:

  • Last night our decision making looked to have gotten better, especially in our 1st conquest games, although we still made one mistake in the end which cost us the match unfortunately.
  • In duo lane I'm more familiar with Sakura, Aquila and Paladin, either way it tends to go well, so long as we don't get ganked repeatedly.
  • I have been using more mages lately and gained more experience in midlane.
  • I play gods in roles I shouldn't, and sometimes it doesn't play out so well, oops.
  • If people get angry I tend to find it funny and will probably be sat there laughing, it may not help the situation at all, but I can't help myself. Apologies in advance or if you thought I've been taking the piss out of you deliberately.
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Administrator

So. Judging my games of the past week, I think we're improving greatly. Decision making has improved. We're making better fire giant calls, but still need to work on securing them better since we had a few stolen of us. I think our improved play can be attributed to the fact we're playing with Shaii and DMan on a more regular basis so we're adapting to different play styles better. 

But it seems like I suck ass at hunters again haha. Can't seem to hit crap this week.

I can play Ao Kuang or Loki in jungle. Did reasonably well with Ao in conquest today despite the loss. But every time I pick Ao, there's always a bloody Hel. It has happened every game this month.

Kumbha is my current go-to guardian pick because he's walking CC and I like that. I don't think I'll really play another guardian support. My only other viable support is Baron Samedi.

Hou Yi is currently on vacation because he had a terrible game against a Medusa. Ullr either shows up and feeds. It's never in between. I haven't played Rama in awhile though so might have to test that out again but hunters for me this week have not been working.

For mid, I wanna work more on Agni and Scylla. Someone with big AOE and lots of control because we seem to be lacking a big circle mage which makes team fights kinda hard to win and we end up relying on sending Loki to split push lol. I've been having a lot of success in mid.

Solo lane is crap lane. It's not fun. But if I do end up there, I still want to persist with warriors in preparation for warriors returning in solo next season.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Administrator

So in light of some of recent games, I want to bring up a few more points.

I do think as a whole we are improving, but there's still a lot of work to be done. I don't think we've really reached a point where we can consistently win games. We're more likely to consistently lose games than win.

When we go up against other four mans of full pre mades, we tend to fall apart in the early game letting them snowball.

I just think we're better than what we've shown. We've had moments of total domination and epic comebacks. But we've also had terrible humiliating defeats.

Learning from our mistakes. Sometimes we go up against better teams. Like people that are in diamond rank conquest. We can learn from that. What did they do that got them ahead? 

@X_Dark_Paladin @Sakura Alexia @Stubborn Saber @Shizophrenia @Lil' Solar-Bunny 

We've got to stop blaming and getting pissed off with each other. No one is perfect. We all screw up from time to time (myself included). We're all on different skill levels and we all have different play styles. But that's not a reason to get angry at someone for failing to ward, for not attacking, for not following up on something. They could be on cool down. They might not have enough mana to do their combo. They might be getting harassed. You get mad. They get mad. Everyone is mad. Team vibe is just ruined. I for one don't appreciate being told to ward. I know how to ward, but I can't buy wards if I'm pinned under my tower.

Look at the map. So many times we run off into the jungle and then die because we're not looking at the map. We can't simply just rely on voice communication and VGS all the time. Sometimes you don't hear it because you're focused on the game (you know the one - enemy missing - you say it a few times but your teammates aren't listening and they die and it's your fault). This just ends up in the blame game and we start looking to blame our teammates which just adds to the overall frustration when really the blame is also ours for over extending or having no vision). When people get mad, morale goes down, and focus as a result, focus also just disappears. If you start getting mad, mute yourself. Return when you've calmed down.

Understand the play styles of your teammates. Some people just aren't as aggressive. Some people are overly aggressive. There's no right or wrong here. Play to the situation. Understand how your lane partner/jungler/mid etc plays. If you go charging in and your lane partner is backing off, and you die, that's on you. Don't overly commit to things if you don't have the support. 

If someone forgot to ward, don't get pissy at them. Sometimes it just happens for a multiple number of reasons (not enough gold, wards just went down and the player can't back, really needed another item etc). Instead of playing the blame game maybe don't go running into a place you have no vision of. Take a different route instead. 

I think we should start trying new things. Right now we're pretty predictable so when the enemy team does something radical (like four man start at our speed), our game plan just falls apart. Maybe we could try a four man start at enemy speed (and carry stays at tower to defend and farm alone). I was also thinking solo can start at duo lane too and come up from behind to gank duo and jungler can cover lane for some solo farm. 

Maybe we could start doing earlier rotations (I know I'm guilty of not rotating early enough). I think we need to get into the habit of sending support to mid lane earlier too (again, something I'm guilty of not doing - general rule of thumb is to leave when guardian's blessing is stacked.) If the enemy support refuses to leave lane, that's okay. Losing a tower early does't mean the game is over.

Working on team combinations. This one is self-explanatory. I think we kinda need to build around each other a bit better.

So to summarize...

  • Need to take more early game risks (invading enemy red, three/four man start at enemy speed, better rotations)
  • Not getting mad at teammates for not playing the way you would normally play
  • Not relying on VGS and voice chat all the time. Looking at the mini map and knowing where your teammates and enemies are)
  • Getting better at securing our own purple camp. We seem to lose it many times and the enemy ends up getting a big lead
  • Working on roles we want to play. I personally want to focus on getting better at solo lane, carry and jungle. I think I'm pretty comfortable in support and mid.
  • Working on better positioning. If you are squishy, don't be at the front. But don't stand too deep either where'll you'll get picked off easily.
  • Grouping up earlier and keeping track of your teammates. Sometimes we will engage in a fight but then our back line gets picked off because we're not paying attention as we're too busy chasing down kills.
  • Securing objectives earlier. Instead of taking down that tier 1 tower, it might be better to go for that Gold Fury or Pyro instead.
  • I'm actually wondering if it's better for the carry to get damage first to help get some pressure in that duo lane. Maybe something worth experimenting with?
  • We gotta work on our team fighting ability. Jungler really shouldn't be the first person to charge in. Leave that to the tanks.
  • We can't keep doing the suicide attempt. That is jumping in and attempting a 1 vs 3 or more. You're just going to die.

What other suggestions do you have?

 

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  • Board Moderator

Well for this year I said and I'll repeat it, I do seriously want to work in my temper, and be more focused on the game.

Anyways I feel like we have to work on team comps more, we rely a lot on the late game and most of the time we don't even get there, we use too many single target gods all together too sometime, and we lack teamfight potential later on.

We need to work to someone that can be aggressive and secure the early game and having a backup for the late game too, have more team balance to not rely too heavily on the eraly or late game. Same thing is to have more AoE characters if we have single target ones, mostly mages and guardians I believe.

As for myself I haven't played in the jungle role for months, and usually it goes poorly, however next time we have a team I'd like to do so, so I can pick up the role again and then see who I can synergize well with in case I end up there.

Also my main role is support and I'd like to try new things there too, I'm thinking at Cerberus mostly, one more guardian in my roster could be good, lately I played healers just because I was pissed that we were seeing them everywhere. I might attempt assassin support again too.

Solos I wanna try more stuff there too, retry Pele mostly, but maybe try more warriors too. Idk I feel like I lack some diversity in my roster.

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I also think if duo is losing pressure, jungler should head to purple earlier. If duo has pressure, don't take purple. 

If a minion kills a minion, you don't get anything for it. Try to last hit those minions. That is where freezing the wave comes in. 

I am keen to try the solo start in duo lane strat. Might take a few rounds to get this right though, but I think it is worth the risk. It opens up the right jungle. Losing solo lane early isn't too big of a deal currently. 

I wanna work on solo, jungle and carry. Especially solo. Always end up behind regardless. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Administrator

So new season upcoming. What do you lot want to focus on improving?

I think our recent games have been better. Playing Pele seems to be a win lol. Having a hunter in the mid lane is working and sticking the mage in carry has worked thus far too.

Obviously, there's still room for improvement and this one is mostly for our less experienced conquest players, but farming and positioning remain an area of concern. Also, still finding those comfort picks for each role.

@Stubborn Saber @Sakura Alexia @X_Dark_Paladin @Lil' Solar-Bunny @VectorLogic @Shizophrenia @X_Dark_Paladin

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3 minutes ago, AquilaTempestas said:

So new season upcoming. What do you lot want to focus on improving?

I think our recent games have been better. Playing Pele seems to be a win lol. Having a hunter in the mid lane is working and sticking the mage in carry has worked thus far too.

Obviously, there's still room for improvement and this one is mostly for our less experienced conquest players, but farming and positioning remain an area of concern. Also, still finding those comfort picks for each role.

@Stubborn Saber @Sakura Alexia @X_Dark_Paladin @Lil' Solar-Bunny @VectorLogic @Shizophrenia @X_Dark_Paladin

I'm definatley better if I play either Support Aphro or Mid Discordia. I want to add a few to my midlaners (Looking at you Freya, Anubis and Posideon)

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13 minutes ago, Lil' Solar-Bunny said:

I'm definatley better if I play either Support Aphro or Mid Discordia. I want to add a few to my midlaners (Looking at you Freya, Anubis and Posideon)

Yeah support Aphro works. I think you should learn to play her in solo lane too. You just have to be careful with your positioning. And to stop leaving the tower when you have full health and mana lol. You should technically only be backing if you have no mana, low on health or you have enough gold to by a T3 item. I notice you still leave a lot when there's a minion wave pushing the tower. Don't leave the tower unguarded. Don't leave the tower to take a camp if there is a minion wave coming.

If you wanna do Anubis, rush Bancrofts first up. Get cheaper items first because you get more benefits quicker.

For Freya, I would play her in the carry lane. It's safer. Celestial Helm Legion should be your first item after the blessing. 

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40 minutes ago, AquilaTempestas said:

So new season upcoming. What do you lot want to focus on improving?

I think our recent games have been better. Playing Pele seems to be a win lol. Having a hunter in the mid lane is working and sticking the mage in carry has worked thus far too.

Obviously, there's still room for improvement and this one is mostly for our less experienced conquest players, but farming and positioning remain an area of concern. Also, still finding those comfort picks for each role.

@Stubborn Saber @Sakura Alexia @X_Dark_Paladin @Lil' Solar-Bunny @VectorLogic @Shizophrenia @X_Dark_Paladin

Well what do you know, Pele is indeed pretty broken, and looks like I can flex her into solo as well, which is good given that I terribly lack of solo laners.

I can keep playing her when its possible if it gets us wins, I don't mind.

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  • Administrator

I think our success really depends on whom we are playing with. I know we tend to win a lot more when its me, stubborn, sakura and paladin because we play together a lot and we know how each other works. It's getting that same level of synergy with other players who don't really play conquest that often as we do (and I'm not just talking about the members on this board but outsiders as well that we team up with from time to time).

In season 6, I do want to focus more on specific gods than trying out new things every game. I think that maybe being too diverse actually ends up doing more harm. Even in the top level of play, players do have their god pools they stick with. And I think maybe that's something we could strive for as well. Instead of trying to be good with every single god, it's better to select a few and work on them. Maybe having a god pool of about four gods per role.

Carry - I'll stick with Ah Muzen Cab, Ullr, Chronos and Rama (sorry Hou Yi but you got dumped)

Mid - For mid, I'll work more with Zeus, Ah Puch, Anubis and Poseidon 

Support - I do like Baron Samedi, Kumbha, Odin and Nox in this role

Jungle - Loki and Ao Kuang will always be here, but I do want to work on Bastet and Mercury (one day I will finally do well with him consistently!)

Solo - Season 6 is bringing back warriors so I want to look more towards improving with Erlang Shen, Odin but I do want to try and improve with Cu Chulainn and learn the way of the Herc. If I'm feeling annoyed at healers, I'll play Aphrodite here too.

Just a few other notes.

  • Working on taking Gold Fury early on (say around the 10-12 minute mark). If we win duo lane, instead of taking the tower, we should look towards taking Gold Fury instead because that's a bigger boon to the team.
  • Not leaving the tower undefended when there's clearly a wave pushing up to the tower
  • I remember watching a coaching video from Weak3n about conquest. He was making the point that you should only back when your health is low, when you have low mana, when you have the the gold to buy a T3 item or when you've just taken a team objective
  • This is one I'm guilty of not doing with certain gods, but ganking that mid lane as soon as you've taken the solo camp and back harpies. Try and get a kill on mid and jungle and you can take enemy red. Even if you don't get a kill, poke them and try to get them to back. That will open the enemy jungle.
  • If you are by yourself in lane and there's no enemies around, learn to freeze the wave. That is allowing the minions to hit each other but you get the last hit on each one for more xp 
  • Better team fights. Not wasting a big aoe ult without some form of set up first.
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10 hours ago, AquilaTempestas said:

In season 6, I do want to focus more on specific gods than trying out new things every game. I think that maybe being too diverse actually ends up doing more harm. Even in the top level of play, players do have their god pools they stick with. And I think maybe that's something we could strive for as well. Instead of trying to be good with every single god, it's better to select a few and work on them. Maybe having a god pool of about four gods per role.

Carry - I'll stick with Ah Muzen Cab, Ullr, Chronos and Rama (sorry Hou Yi but you got dumped)

Mid - For mid, I'll work more with Zeus, Ah Puch, Anubis and Poseidon 

Support - I do like Baron Samedi, Kumbha, Odin and Nox in this role

Jungle - Loki and Ao Kuang will always be here, but I do want to work on Bastet and Mercury (one day I will finally do well with him consistently!)

Solo - Season 6 is bringing back warriors so I want to look more towards improving with Erlang Shen, Odin but I do want to try and improve with Cu Chulainn and learn the way of the Herc. If I'm feeling annoyed at healers, I'll play Aphrodite here too.

Aye, an excellent point, not that the rest of it was bad, but I think this is a good way to increase our chances of winning conquest matches. As for my picks:

  • Solo- King Arthur, Guan Yu, Erlang Shen, Achilles, Tyr
  • Support- Ganesha, Geb, Chaac, Cabrakan, Ymir
  • Mid- Hades, Hera, Poseidon, Kukulkan
  • Carry- ChernobogArtemis, Ullr (Damage), Jing Wei 
  • Jungle- King Arthur, Loki, The Morrigan, Ratatoskr, Fenrir

This should be done when there are at least four of us on, plus it could be altered every month, maybe every patch, so you can use other gods you think performed better in your other games.

2 hours ago, X_Dark_Paladin said:

Solo: (my favorite -_-) Chaac, Achilles, Tyr and Osiris

Why no one like solo lane? :(

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@Sakura Alexia @Stubborn Saber @X_Dark_Paladin @Lil' Solar-Bunny

All right. I'd like to say we're improving, but then we take two step backwards for every step we take going forwards.

Today we had about 11 games. 8 of those were conquest. We won 1 (possibly 2) out of those 8. Paladin and I went on later today to play three games of conquest. We lost all three.

We are consistently good at losing and that's not a place I want to be in. Don't get me wrong - I love playing Smite and I do enjoy playing together as a team because I think you guys are fun, but these constant losses are killing me right now. It's deflating. Individually, we're not bad players. We can make some great plays. But we can't seem to bring these individual talents together. I want us to be able to be able to consistently win games instead of the opposite. We should not be winning one game then losing the next five over and over again. We're good at losing and that's not a position I want to be in.

So. I'm gonna be a bit more direct here. This is getting frustrating. We're falling back into that 'lose everything' period again.

I'm not pointing the blame at a specific individual here - but I'm pointing the finger at us all collectively as a unit.

We had a short period of time when we were doing well and now we're falling back into old habits.

  • If one lane falls early, it puts additional pressure on the other lanes. As a result, we all suffer collectively as a team. Each member needs to play it safe and understand the best way to help the team is by not dying. Sometimes this can't be helped. But most of the time you can avoid dying. 
  • This one is for Bunny in that solo lane. Don't over extend. As a solo laner, you really should not be the one lowest in levels.
  • We gotta work on leaving that duo lane earlier on even if that enemy support won't leave. Just apply pressure in that mid lane instead.
  • So I think Sakura is doing great as Pele. I tried Pele myself and there's insane lag spikes whenever I play her. I think Sakura does better in the solo lane as Pele rather than jungle Pele (though jungle Pele is fine too).
  • Stubborn is really good with King Arthur in any role.
  • Bunny needs to learn how to properly farm and work on better positioning.
  • Don't leave the lane when there are minions pushing up.
  • Don't leave the lane when there are minions pushed up to take a camp.
  • Paladin as Medusa in mid also works and that means a mage can go in duo lane as carry. Both roles are still covered at least.
  • If someone is under leveled, let them solo farm. If you are several levels behind everyone else, please don't group up because you're just going to get less farm because of the XP sharing penalty.
  • Find the line of balance between being aggressive and being passive. If you don't have vision of the enemy, it's not a good idea to push.
  • Don't build damage on guardians in duo lane unless you are Stubborn because he actually knows how to make these builds work
  • The jungler can't always be in your lane. They have to decide which lane to gank. If your jungler isn't around, don't be too aggressive
  • Wards are your best friend. You can't always rely on call outs.
  • I think we still need to work on comps and picking our best lane partner. Like if I go mid, I work best with Paladin jungle, but if I go jungle, then I work best with Sakura mid.

WHAT IS WORKING

  • Hunter in mid and mage in duo. Preferably someone with a big AOE like a Zeus in duo and a hunter like Medusa in mid
  • Pele in solo is working great. We've won all our games with Sakura's Pele solo.
  • Stubborn's King Arthur is a force to be reckoned with regardless of role
  • I play a decent Zeus in mid or in duo

WHAT ISN'T WORKING

  • Bunny should not play mid or solo lane. If you insist on playing Kuku or Poseidon, play them in the duo lane and we can send a hunter to the mid lane.
  • Farming remains a huge issue. In quite a few of our matches today, our entire team was at least five levels behind the enemy.
  • Bunny building Soul Reaver first item after blessing in duo as a guardian. Save it as a final item for guardians, but not early on like that.
  • Poor team fights. Picking bad fights. 
  • Me playing jungle. It just isn't working.
  • Sakura and I in duo. It's struggling at the moment.

So I looked over the matches we had today.

Game 1. http://smite.guru/match/pc/901652918 

  • Bunny was actually doing okay in solo lane as Bellona
  • Ra went off to a good start, but then just died lots in the mid to late game
  • Baka made a dumb decision to go for fire giant when the rest of us were defending the phoenix
  • I think the fault was on the randoms in this game

Game 2. http://smite.guru/match/pc/901665888

  • We won this game thanks to a disconnect. Yay.

Game 3. http://smite.guru/match/pc/901674759

  • We lost solo lane very hard which ended up putting a lot of stress on the team overall. Ymir got fed and was able to rotate early.
  • We were terribly under farmed

Game 4. http://smite.guru/match/pc/901684723

  • Four man enemy team. They ganked us very hard at our own speed. We lost our jungle farm and thus mid and jungle (Stubborn and myself) were put behind thus putting pressure on the other lanes. I was level 1 whilst enemy jungler was on lvl 3. That says it all.
  • We lost solo lane very hard again. Bunny needs a proper solo lane build for physicals.

Game 6. We actually won game 5. http://smite.guru/match/pc/901709425

  • We lost our random. Once again we lost solo lane hard and King Arthur got fed on the enemy team
  • It was a snowball from solo lane.

Game 7. This was terrible. http://smite.guru/match/pc/901718563

  • Blame on randoms for this shocking match. What. The. Fuck.
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